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06/16/15 5:54 AM
06/16/15 12:40 PM
steelmaker wrote:Traditionally, "preterism" is applied to the belief that the Olivet Discourse prophecies, and all other prophecies associated with it have all cometa pass. The OD is the central set of Scriptures in this doctrine.
Not at all. That "tradition" was a misapplication as to what Preterism originally was in the intent of the Jesuits.
"Full" preterists believe that the great antichrist 'beast' and his deputy, the miracle-working false prophet, have already come, the 'abomination of desolation' has already been committed by that man, the 'marka the beast' has been issued, the 'great tribulation' was the siege of Jerusalem in 66-70 AD, and that Jesus has already returned. The "partial" preterist believes that all the events have already occurred but the returna Jesus.
And that shows that you are misapplying the term "preterism". First of all there is no such thing as "full" preterism and "partial" preterism. Those descriptives are related to the misapplication. Next, the "beast" and "false prophet" and "the mark of the beast" are all in relation to the Revelation, none of which have anything to do with Jerusalem's destruction in 70 AD. Those "preterists" (again, misapplied) who believe Christ already came aren't really preterists. They are just heretics. Preterism as the Jesuits created it, has to do with applying the prophecies in the Revelation (as described above) as having taken place BEFORE the Revelation was revealed. The Jesuits in this case said that Nero was the Antichrist. Nero came and went before the Revelation was given. The Revelation was given in 95 AD, decades after Nero. That is why it is called "pre" terism--that it had occurred BEFORE the Revelation was given. None of what you described, with the exception of Jerusalem's destruction and the return of Christ, occurred before 95 AD. They HAD however, with the exception of Christ's return, come to pass AFTER the Revelation was given. Thus, that CANNOT be "preterism" since they are being applied to events AFTER the Revelation was given. They have come to pass in HISTORY in the centuries and millennia SINCE the Revelation was given. That is not "preterism" but "Historicism" or as referring to events that have been fulfilled which the Revelation said would occur. Many of the pre-reformers and Reformers rightly identified the Papacy as the Antichrist. They were NOT Preterists in any way. They were seeing that the things of which the Revelation prophesied were taking place in their very day and beyond since the False Prophet who is that Antichrist will not be destroyed until Christ's return. Here are just some of the names of those who believed this:
J. A. Wiley, Martin Luther, William Tyndale, the Waldensians, the Lollards, Turretin, Whitaker, Nicolas Ridely, George Downame, John Frith, Robert Barnes, Andreas Osiander, Thomas Becon, Joachim Vadianus, John Wesley, John Wycliffe, John Hus, John Knox, Hugh Latimer, John Foxe, Girolamo Savonarola, Philip Melanchthon, Hulreich Zwingli, Heinrich Bullinger, Nicolaus Von Amsdorf, Flacius, Georg Nigrinus, Thomas Cranmer, Roger Williams, the Baptist Confession of Faith (1689), the Westminster Confession of Faith (1646), Charles Spurgeon, and yes, John Calvin, and more modern men such as Dr. Thomas Cooke and Richard Bennett. None of these men were "Preterists". Nor were they SDA.
And NO, the antichrist has NOT yet come.
And yes, he has come. He is a world leader, and CLAIMS to be the ruler of the world. The prophecy is regarding his CLAIMS, not the reality.
The Holy Spirit is He who was holding him back in Paul's time, and is still holding him back right now.
Oops, that was not a reference to the "Holy Spirit". That's not what Paul said. That was in reference to why the Antichrist couldn't come yet--because the ancient Roman Caesar was still ruling in Rome.
But some day He is gonna step aside and allow Satan to indwell some man who will solve some of the world's seemingly-unsolvable problems, such as the Jewish-Moslem emnity.
He already stepped aside--when Constantine moved the Roman Empire seat to Constantinople.
However, the AC will be indwelt by Satan himself, and this indwelling will last until Jesus returns & casts both the antichrist and his deputy bodily, alive, directly into the lake of fire.
He already IS indwelt by Satan himself.
But I'm getting off the subject, which is the definition of the doctrine commonly called preterism.
But you are misapplying the definition.
Come to Christ not as a buyer or as a merchant, but as a beggar.
06/17/15 9:27 AM
06/17/15 10:04 AM
And that is the Jesuit futurist view, just as wrong as the true Preterist view they made up. Futurists have a penchant at throwing the term "preterist" about to bolster their own false view (among others). There is only one real meaning of Preterist, and it's not that one.
In the meantime, the Historicist view rightly understands that those things prophesied in the Revelation and warned about by Paul have been coming to pass throughout history since those things were foretold.
06/17/15 1:47 PM
06/17/15 2:18 PM
Obviously, the return of Christ hasn't occurred since we wouldn't be here were it otherwise. No need to keep bringing up that obvious point. It doesn't matter that you didn't acquire that view directly from them. They infiltrated that view into Protestantism and you learned it that way. Their goal was to get Protestants to forget that the Papacy is the Antichrist, and they have succeeded beyond their wildest of dreams. That agenda is called the "Counter Reformation", something that continues to this day, except now, they don't need as many Jesuits to peddle their futurist tale since the "Protestants" are now doing it for them. Not all of us have fallen for their Satanic lie however.
Since the Revelation was given the Apostle John, many things have occurred these past millennia. The Antichrist, who is the False Prophet, has been with us a long, long, time, and will continue to be with us until Christ's bodily return, at which point he shall be cast alive into the Lake of Fire.
06/18/15 7:16 AM
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08/27/15 12:59 AM
there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is
not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
08/27/15 5:24 AM
steelmaker wrote:Rev. 17:10 And
there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is
not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. Preterists insist that the 6th king who then "is" was Nero. However, this is untrue, as Nero was more than the 6th king of Rome. Also, there were far-more than eight kings of Rome, even with counting Nero as the 6th. However, I believe those verses refer to kingDOMS, not simply kings. The five that had fallen were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece. The one that 'is' was Rome. The 7th was a 'western' Roman empire ruled by Odoacer and Theoderic The Great, and was conquered by Justinian 1 after Theo's death, parts being absorbed into the Holy Rpman Empire. The 8th will be made up of descendants of the nations that formed those previous empires, plus many more peoples as well. this will be the empire of the 'beast'.
I agree that those were kingdoms, and in fact, they were empires. Nero wasn't even reigning when the Revelation was given John. It was Domitian who was reigning in 95 AD.
I also agree with the five fallen empires you named except that I include the pre-flood Egypt with pre-flood Sumer as being of the first head, as I believe the same men founded them both, and both were re-founded after the flood.
I also agree that the ancient Roman Empire in its entirety was the sixth head--even when and after Constantine had moved its seat to the east to Constantinople.
The 7th head took the place in the West of what once had belonged to the Roman Empire there after Constantine had moved its seat to the east. We have come to call that kingdom that took over the vacated western half, the "Holy Roman Empire" whose kings were drawn from 10 of its dynastic families, but which kings were controlled by the "little horn" of Daniel 7. The "little horn" had come into being during the 6th head when Justinian I had declared in 536 AD that the Roman bishop was to be the "bishop of all bishops". That "little horn" became the Papacy who afterward began to crown the kings of the 7th head. The Papacy crowned all the kings of the 7th head and also excommunicated the kings from three of those ten dynastic families. The Holy Roman Empire had also come to an end, therefore we are now living during the time of the eighth king which is also the last for there are no others beyond him.
That eighth head is of the seven because this kingdom has religious characteristics of the seven before it, having incorporated them into its perverted form of "Christianity". It is led by the same "little horn" which had been on the 7th head controlling the ten kings (the ten dynastic families which had produced the kings of the Holy Roman Empire). That "little horn" is the False Prophet that shall be cast alive into the Lake of Fire upon the bodily return of Christ Jesus. The subjects of this eighth kingdom are found through the whole world, but the "little horn" no longer has control over actual armies and kings despite his claim that he has been given by heaven that authority over kings and all nations of the world spiritually.
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