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07/29/12 5:00 PM
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07/31/12 4:55 AM
I don't believe anyone on earth knew Jesus' name until Gabriel made the Annunciation to Mary.
It seems you are using the word name in way which is not conducive in knowing God but more of a a way of identifying the existence of a person or entity . God does not have a name such as we do today which is necessary to tell each other apart when communing with each other.
All of the different names of God point to certain immutable aspects of His invisible authority..God is Spirit and not a man as us.
All of the Old testament saints knew the name/authority of "Jehovah is Savior"(the meaning of the word Jesus) which is not dependent on His outward manifestation that He took upon Himself for thirty three years, as that which we do not know Him after today according to that outward manifestation..(2Co 5:16)
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
It is the same Spirit of Christ that dwelt in the old testament saints as that which dwells in us today. And while we look back to that glory as the finished work of the gospel, they looked ahead by the the same name/authority in regard to those who walk by faith and not by sight.
But the men of God looked for the Messiah from shortly after the Flood onward. Jacob mentioned "Shiloh" in a manner that showed his sons had heard that prophecy before. And I believe David knew He was God's Son, without knowing His name.
The word Shiloh seems to point towards another the immutable attribute of God ,as the Peaceful One, or the comforting one, pointing to I believe, the peace of God that surpasses all understanding .
And in the same way in regard to names of God in that they point toward certain immutable attributes of God, like for instance in Exodus below.
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
In that verse Jehovah is simply saying I believe, that by the authority in lieu of a Savior I was not know to them . It was during this time period that the Lord was working towards delivering as a Savior His people from the bondage of this world which was typlfied by Egypt, just as that which was promised before hand to Abraham 400 years earlier, passed on to Isaac, and unto Jacob and this concourse in Exodus 6 was the beginning of fulfilling that prophecy spoken to them four hundred years earlier.
While He did appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty ,which speaks in general of His power and authority, by the authority/name of Him as a Savior millions of Hebrew were saved from that bondage .Altogether it was a vivid picture as a parable of our salvation.
In Isiah 43 the Lord (Jehovah) clearly identifies the word Jehovah as the Savior that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob knew him not by seeing that fulfillment in regard to four hundred years was still ahead of them and what was prophesied was know in a experiential way by those of that era.
But looking at the word Lord (Jehovah) we can see I believe how the word reflects the immutable attribute of God as our Savior
Isa 43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
Another interesting note, I believe in regard to the name "Jesus" (Jehovah is Savior) the Greek rendering of the Hebrew word Joshua, is that in the Old testament is when Joshua 's name was changed from Hosea (Savior) to Joshua (Jehovah is Savior) which also, I believe helps us to understand another of His immutable attributes in lieu of His name Qanna the Hebrew word for Jealous which I believe reflects the name change to Hosea knowing Jehovah as our Saviour will not share His glory with another
Num 13:16 These are the names of the men which Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua.
Exo 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Strongs lexicon...07067 qanna' {kan-naw'}from 07065; TWOT - 2038b; adj
AV - jealous 6; 6 1) jealous (only of God)
Posts: 5733
07/31/12 5:50 AM
07/31/12 5:17 PM
07/31/12 5:55 PM
Posts: 824
08/01/12 12:11 AM
steelmaker wrote:Wrong, JR. Jesus said His Father was greater than He, and, in the Kingdom of God, He was gonna be subject to His Father so His Father could be all in all. (1 Cor. 15:28) Your post reex of modalism.
08/02/12 3:50 PM
08/02/12 7:27 PM
Hi Steel
when U say there's only ONE Spirit in the Godhead, that's modalism.
Scripture refers to God as one Spirit. God is Spirit, not Spirits, as many.
Scripture repeatedly refers to father, Son, and Holy Spirit separately, while calling each "God".
The terms God the Father, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit do not, I believe appear in scripture.
The Godhead mystery might refer to a separation but God is one as the “I Am”, not the “We Are”
There's just no getting around that FACT. While Scripture shows the heirarchy of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, they are all God to us, and are to be worshipped as such.
Its not getting around the facts but more of trying to define the facts.
Again, I don't know anything about the HOLY TRINITY besides what SCRIPTURE declares, but I DO know those Scriptures quite well. And I believe some misunderstanding occurs when we try to place the HT on human level.
I would agree we cannot use human terms to define God,God is Spirit and not a man (creation) as us. The term Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us, not God is us.
There's no doubt that there are three distinct Personages, co-existing in the same Godhead, each omniscient and holy, each performing differing functions while in perfect agreement.
Yes, perfect agreement,perfect submission as the work of one perfect will. And although it’s the peace that surpasses understanding that peace is not attributed to the Father as greater portion than the peace that is attributed to Son. Together the Father and Son working together in perfect submission to one another as a mutual work of faith, is the picture I see. Scripture refers to that work of faith, as one faith, the faith of God.
Someone a while back suggested the use of the terms Father and Son as attributes of God. When looking at the name Jesus which means “Jehovah is Savior” I believe it could represent the various attributes of God working together as one, and while I am not saying that solves the mystery I personally have not found another way as of yet of explaining the peace of God that surpasses all understanding, as the one God who guards our hearts and minds, by faith.
Again, we see, in Psalm 110, God The Father addressing God The Son. There are TWO Personages here.
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Psalm 110:1
Psalms 110:1 seems to be indicating the same kind of communion (The LORD said unto my Lord )in regard to the language found in the new testament by which He rested in, after the finished mutual work, who when finished sat down at the right hand of the Lord and returned to His previous glory, as the I Am, which I believe is reflected in John 17:4
Mark 14:36And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
We, I believe can see the Lord Jesus speaking to the Lord represented by the term Father, as one Lord, one faith, one will.
08/02/12 8:00 PM
garee wrote:Hi Steel when U say there's only ONE Spirit in the Godhead, that's modalism. Scripture refers to God as one Spirit. God is Spirit, not Spirits, as many. The Godhead mystery might refer to a separation but God is one as the “I Am”, not the “We Are” The term Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us, not God is us.
08/03/12 12:36 PM
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08/03/12 12:58 PM
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08/03/12 4:01 PM
08/03/12 8:43 PM
08/04/12 6:32 AM
08/04/12 7:02 AM
Cym98 wrote: It's the crazy things believers find to argue about Art, that gets me and the level to which they take it. Swords at dawn anyone? Or....was that...pistols at dawn?
08/04/12 7:09 AM
The Holy Spirit is One. And Psalm 110 plainly speax of a conversation between TWO PERSONAGES. I'm sure David saw it that way, as JESUS called him a prophet, and referred to what David wrote, which was undoubtedly a vision David saw..
And Mark14:36 plainly speax of the same kind of conversation between TWO PERSONAGES prior to and leading up to Psalms 110:1 pointing toward that finished work at Calvary, indicating God who is one Spirit finished the work and was now resting in it.(sitting at the right hand)
When looking at the revealed conversations of God . In effect as a mystery, God is speaking to God as our one Lord.(Lord said to my Lord.) It seems God can hear His own thoughts and as Christ said in John 11 the fact that He does reveal them in His word was for us to believe, not God who is one Spirit, in whom we believe.
Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me. John 11:41-42
Again, God is not greater than God; it’s the position that one took which was greater than the other. The one work of one faith was mutual.
Ephesians 4:5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
08/04/12 8:54 AM
08/05/12 8:32 AM
Yes, one FAITH, not one PERSONAGE.
FAITH comes from believing PERSONAGE. Believing PERSONAGE according to God’s law of faith comes from hearing that exclusive PERSONAGE .Galitians 3 I believe makes it clear it is not of ourselves(of the flesh).
I just want to learn this from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now completed in the flesh?Gal 3:2
Yes one work of faith, according to one labor of love, the faith of God as the very labor of God... not gods as in Legion. There is no hierarchy in the Godhead (singular) not god-heads (plural).
08/05/12 3:01 PM
08/05/12 8:03 PM
steelmaker wrote:JR, when U say there's only ONE Spirit in the Godhead, that's modalism. Scripture repeatedly refers to father, Son, and Holy Spirit separately, while calling each "God". There's just no getting around that FACT. While Scripture shows the heirarchy of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, they are all God to us, and are to be worshipped as such. Again, I don't know anything about the HOLY TRINITY besides what SCRIPTURE declares, but I DO know those Scriptures quite well. And I believe some misunderstanding occurs when we try to place the HT on human level. There's no doubt that there are three distinct Personages, co-existing in the same Godhead, each omniscient and holy, each performing differing functions while in perfect agreement. Again, we see, in Psalm 110, God The Father addressing God The Son. There are TWO Personages here.
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